April 26, 2008

Couple Dating – Through the Rosy Glasses

Posted in Uncategorized tagged , , , , , , at 9:46 am by Kathleen

Colby asked yesterday if I weren’t looking a little too much through the rosy glasses when I was musing how wonderful it would be to enjoy a two-couple relationship.  Keep in mind that the rosy glasses are all I have, since I have never been in one.  I have also had the experience of seeing a couple of couple-couple quads, and each of them dropped a leg and ended up a triad, so obviously all is not blissful and perfect.  If ONE relationship is hard, imagine SIX under the same roof, and then (maybe) add kids to the mix.  Talk about some work!

But I really do think that the work could be worth it.  So what would happen if both men, let’s say, wanted to spend the night with the woman A, and no one particularly wanted to spend the night with woman B?  Well, in  my humble opinion if no one wants woman B at all, then they are in a bad way to begin with.  For the parents out there, think of your kids.  You’ve loved the first one longest, and you probably even prefer one of them, even though we all know that “there is no favorite child”.  So would you feel oh-so-down if your “favorite” had plans when you wanted to take them to the park, but the sibling wanted to go?  Probably not.

Sure, everyone might want to spend the night with woman A, but I really don’t think it is that big of a problem.  Here are the steps, in a perfect world, that I would like to see:

1. Woman A asks each of the men if either of them have an especial need tonight.  They may be able to talk together to find out that Man A is feeling sad and needy, and Man B just expressed a preference, and work it out that way.

2. If there is no need involved, then Woman A takes her pick of the two and they go to bed (or dinner, or whatever), hopefully promising a future date to the other man so that he has it to look forward to.

3. The “unchosen two” still get to spend a wonderful and loving time together because they all love each other.  Woman  B may not be the first choice today for whatever reason (maybe Woman A was wearing that sexy perfume) but that doesn’t make her less loved, and not being chosen doesn’t make the other guy any less loved, either.

Sometimes you have to choose between your  kids for the last cookie, the only extra seat, whatever… but you will make it up to the others, and even if there are hurt feelings, there is always love.

Sure, it isn’t and can’t be perfect, but this is how I see it, potentially.

Blessings, and thank you for the question, Colby!

Kathleen

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11 Comments »

  1. Auria Cortes said,

    “I have also had the experience of seeing a couple of couple-couple quads, and each of them dropped a leg and ended up a triad…”

    Those didn’t work out so well.

    “But I really do think that the work could be worth it.”

    Why? From first hand knowledge you’ve seen the opposite. What do you expect to gain that the triad couples fail to attain? How does your core marriage differ from the ones above?

    Also, I have another question (though you may not know the answer). Why not an open marriage. Poly probably falls under the umbrella of open marriage so for the sake of this conversation, I’ll define an open marriage as follows:

    a married couple who can date outside of their marriage and not introduce said boyfriend/girlfriend to the core relationship.

    I imagine a part of your response will relate to the intimacy and closeness a couple generates through the poly experience. You have said many times that is the case with your marriage and I have no reason to doubt that to be true.

    And I have another question (sorry), you’ve mentioned that you know/met/knowof people in poly relationships but they are much older than you. With these couples in mind, did they marry their spouse early in life? Or did they decide poly was for them later in life?

  2. Kathleen said,

    Auria, I’m having a dense week. What do you mean by this: “not introduce said boyfriend/girlfriend to the core relationship.”

    That way I can answer a little more clearly. 🙂

  3. Auria Cortes said,

    I’m defining the core relationship as the marriage – you and your husband.
    So you never meet his girlfriend(s) and he never meets your boyfriend(s).

    I’ve mentioned before that I’ve been in relationships where I had a main guy (not a boyfriend, tho. I’ve only had one of those and I’m 35. ) and then saw others on the side. The way we worked it is that we did our own thing and never discussed specifics with each other.

    Btw, you and your husband are a handsome couple. And no, I’m not applying for the Unicorn position. LOL 🙂 But seriously, the two of you are.

  4. Kathleen said,

    Thank you. 🙂 I would describe an open marriage as any marriage in which the couple is allowed to have outside relationships (even just intimate friendships) without secrecy. Is poly open? Yup. Are all open relationships poly? No, I don’t think so. We have a poly relationship, in part, because we were originally going to see Becky together. That didn’t work out, but I would still rather know than not know what is going on.

    The quads that I mentioned did not work well, but not all marriages work, either, and people get married all the time. I have met at least one member of a WORKING quad, and have heard of others, though I am not as familiar with the people.

    For the last question, I really don’t know. I think that my friend, T, who blesses my blog with a comment from time to time, has been swinging with her husband for ages until they kind of accidentally settled into a quad. I suppose I could ask around; I do know a few young poly people through kink, but mostly the ones that I have met have been a bit older.

  5. Auria Cortes said,

    “…but I would still rather know than not know what is going on.”

    Ah. That’s the difference. I could have cared less. But as I mentioned, I didn’t love them so maybe that’s the difference. When you love someone maybe there is a vested interest than when you just deeply care for someone.

    On the other hand, when I lived with my boyfriend (whom I loved), he could walk out of the house, not tell me he was leaving, and I wouldn’t think twice about where he was. Or he could’ve come home late and I never asked where he was. It just wasn’t a question that popped into my mind.

    “The quads that I mentioned did not work well, but not all marriages work, either…”

    That is true and the reason why I asked the follow up question – asking about the qualities that your marriage has that the other poly relationships didn’t have.

    “I think that my friend, T, who blesses my blog with a comment from time to time, has been swinging with her husband for ages until they kind of accidentally settled into a quad.”

    Hey, T if you are reading this, jump in the convo. 🙂

  6. Kathleen said,

    “Or he could’ve come home late and I never asked where he was. It just wasn’t a question that popped into my mind.”

    It’s not that I have to know where he is at every minute, but we talk about every tiny part of our days. I love to know what is going on with him, and he seems to enjoy our conversations as well. Not talking about other people that impact our relationship would kind of be a black hole in our conversations, and an awkward one.

    In fact, I would say that it is probably one of the things that I would say is different from other people. I have NEVER met a couple who communicate as honestly, as thoroughly, and as deeply as we do, nor have I met anyone else with the ability to look deep inside, even when they don’t want to, and pull out a true motivation, which is something that I do. I may not WANT to know why I say “I’m fine” when what I mean is “I’ll tell you later”, but Michael called me on it, and a long talk and some thinking revealed that if my dad got a whiff of what was wrong, he would pry and intrude endlessly. Ah ha!

    I have to have faith that our marriage is different from other marriages in that we have that level of connection. I don’t know if I will ever be involved in a quad… it isn’t as if I have any potential couple lined up right now or anything, but I would like to think that the same depth of communication would be something that the other couple would accept from us, and that it would be a tool that we could ALL use to grow.

    You have failed to mention the other possibility, which is that my husband and myself remain strong, but that our connection with the other woman drives HER man away. That, too, is entirely possible (in this theoretical quad 😛 )

    Jump in, T 🙂

  7. rosemerry said,

    Just ignore if this is completely off base. This post just reminded me of Michael Valentine and “The Nest” that he creates in “Stranger in a Strange Land” by Robert Heinlein. Not saying a quad is anything like what Michael Valentine created but it did remind me of it.

    Kathleen your blog is very interesting and I enjoy reading it immensely.

  8. Okay, yes, I guess I see what you mean. The favorite child analogy did make sense with me, but in a strange way it made me think of how I am with my friends. Sometimes I’m in a particular mood to be around one of them if I had to pick only one to hang out with, but it wouldn’t mean I wouldn’t enjoy spending time with the other, per se. So I guess I see what you’re saying. It’s deifnitely not the same as me and my friends, just because when you’re talking about sexual relationships they are obviously more complicated, but I guess the general idea of the ideal situation you’re talking about I understand now. Thanks for the answer 🙂

  9. T said,

    hey Kathleen,

    sorry i’m so late at jumping in here.

    not sure what to say.
    to recap whats already been stated…
    yes, we’ve been swinging for what seems like ages now, and yes, we kinda fell into a poly type relationship with another couple.
    yes, poly relationships are open.
    no, not all open marriages are poly.

    to us, a poly type relationship involves love, concern, and care for all parties involved. oh yeah, and sex….lol

    an open marriage (think, swingers,) is different, its all about the sex. and more sex. sure some friendships are formed, but its basically about the sex.

    Some poly arrangements allow for no other sexual contact. Being swingers, we still have sexual encounteres with others, but do not form those loving relationships with them.

    we spend most of our free time with our poly couple, let’s call them M and W, they spend most of their free time with us. On occasion, hubby and i will go meet and possibly play with another swinging couple, or M and W might.
    We simply know we are all swingers, and thats what swingers do. We all do it responsibly, meaning using protection. We discuss it, if it needs discussed, but generally no discussion is needed. Would the concept of not HAVING to discuss it, work for every poly arrangement…..NO.

    About our poly arrangement,. it consists of 2 married couples. both women are bisexual, yet have no desire to play with each other, as we are content being good friends and sharing the loves of our lives with the other. Not to mention, the other man, M and i are in a long term M/s relationsip, whereas my hubby, and W are not interested in that. (M/s =Master/slave) Now that makes for some interesting sexual encounters with others… but explaining any marks is simple, i have a very unique relationship with one man, and its part of who i am. Most people just smile or are actually interested

    does this work for everyone out there? nope, everyone is different and has different needs. if those needs can be met inside the walls of a 2 person structure, then wonderful, but there is nothing wrong with being honest enough to be able to tell your partner that you need more. We talked for years about swinging before it finally happened, and even discussed a poly type arrangement, but chose not to actively look for it, and it found us.

    Honesty is the big factor, there is absolutely no jealousy between any of us.
    Does it sometimes get complicated, oh yeah. how so? because every decision made affects the quad. if i’m grumpy, it affects everyone, if M is ill, it makes us all worry with fear. If W had a rough day teaching, we might all have to walk on eggshells….etc, etc.LOL.

    Its like a big loving family. When we are together, i focus my attention on M and W, as does hubby, and they do the same. and yes, we do all love each other. i can open tell them i love them, they know i do, its a different type of love than the love i hold for my hubby, but its love nonetheless.

    Now, if for some reason, one of us decided it wasnt working anymore, what would happen? we’d all be in agreement. All parties involved have to be in agreement for it work..successfully.

    i hope this helped some, altho, i think i’ve just rambled a bunch of babble.

    Hugs,
    T

  10. Auria Cortes said,

    Thanks for jumping in T. Swinging just being about sex makes sense to me. I had no idea that poly relationships can include zero sexual contact, but just an emotional connection.

  11. Auria Cortes said,

    “It’s not that I have to know where he is at every minute, but we talk about every tiny part of our days.”

    I didn’t think that was the case.

    I was just mentioning that it never popped in my mind to ask where he was…what he was doing. I realize that is “normal” to ask in most relationships.

    “You have failed to mention the other possibility, which is that my husband and myself remain strong…”

    You are 100% correct on that one. That is certainly a viable possibility that I didn’t consider.


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